{"id":52823,"date":"2023-07-18T13:28:34","date_gmt":"2023-07-18T13:28:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/packetstormsecurity.com\/news\/view\/34807\/Hacker-Conversations-Inside-The-Mind-Of-Daniel-Kelley-Ex-Blackhat.html"},"modified":"2023-07-18T13:28:34","modified_gmt":"2023-07-18T13:28:34","slug":"hacker-conversations-inside-the-mind-of-daniel-kelley-ex-blackhat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.threatshub.org\/blog\/hacker-conversations-inside-the-mind-of-daniel-kelley-ex-blackhat\/","title":{"rendered":"Hacker Conversations: Inside The Mind Of Daniel Kelley, Ex-Blackhat"},"content":{"rendered":"

Daniel Kelley is the first ex-Blackhat in SecurityWeek\u2019s series: Hacker Conversations. He spoke openly on his journey into and out of the cybercriminal world \u2013 motivations, experiences, trial, sentence and the future.<\/strong>\n<\/p>\n

Kelley was just 18 years old when he was arrested and charged on thirty counts \u2013 most infamously for the 2015 hack<\/a> of UK telecoms firm TalkTalk. In 2019 he was convicted and sentenced to four years in prison. \n<\/p>\n

At the time, the BBC reported, \u201cKelley will serve his sentence in a young offenders institution.\u201d In the event, he served time at Belmarsh Category-A prison, widely regarded as the most secure prison in the UK \u2013 and home to convicted terrorists, murderers and threats to \u2018national security\u2019.\n<\/p>\n

This is a brief history of the events and their aftermath.\n<\/p>\n

Like many hackers, both Blackhat and Whitehat, Kelley did not learn his skills in formal education \u2013 he was self-taught online. \u201cI\u2019m completely self-taught,\u201d he said, \u201cwhether through online forums or blogs.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

He was an avid online 13-year-old gamer, and like many gamers, he liked to cheat. This led him to various bulletin boards and forums, where the techniques of cheating \u2013 and more \u2013 were frequently discussed. It was here he began to learn the concepts and methodologies he would later use to hack websites.\n<\/p>\n

\n
\"Daniel
Daniel Kelley <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n

He learned no cyber skills from school or college \u2013 and here it is worth noting that Kelley is a diagnosed Asperger syndrome sufferer (Asperger\u2019s, now known as an autism spectrum disorder \u2013 ASD). Social constructs, such as the classroom or office, are a serious difficulty with such conditions.\n<\/p>\n

He began to spend more and more time online, visiting more dubious game cheat websites. \u201cThe websites I visited to learn how to hack video games, also had criminals on them \u2013 that\u2019s the type of networks and forums they were. People were hacking websites and selling stolen data. I had exposure to that type of thing, even when my intent wasn\u2019t to become a Blackhat.\u201d<\/p>\n

Advertisement. Scroll to continue reading.<\/span><\/div>\n

In a sense, Kelley never consciously decided to be a Blackhat. He was just on a trajectory that led to it. \u201cI think I just became fascinated with the challenge. And sort of went from there.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

But Blackhat he became. \u201cEssentially, I went around hacking websites, and then extorting the website owners. Whether that was ransomware or sending an email, or just exfiltrating data. That was my objective. I would hack into websites, I would steal data, and then I would demand a ransom payment in exchange for not releasing that data.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

When he was caught and charged, it was said he had caused \u00a370,000,000 damage. But he only \u2018earned\u2019 a few thousand pounds from hacking. Most of his victims never paid his extortion.\n<\/p>\n

\u201cI was hit with something like 30 charges. I also pled guilty to selling financial data, and there were several unauthorized access charges. In some cases, I just hacked things and didn\u2019t do anything with my access. So, I\u2019ve been involved in every aspect of it \u2013 but the main thing that was in the press is that that I would hack into websites and blackmail the website owners.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Kelley was never told directly how he was caught, but is \u2018fairly confident\u2019 he understands the process. \u201cI basically hacked two websites at once: website A and website B. Website A was a really small website, and website B was a really big website. I tried to blackmail the website owners. For one of the websites, I only used VPN for this, and for the other, I only used Tor. But I provided the same cryptocurrency wallet in both cases, which allowed the authorities to link the incidents.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

In the VPN case, law enforcement obtained the logs from the VPN provider leading to his arrest for both hacks. \u201cThe reason I think this theory is plausible is because when they initially arrested me, they only came to arrest me for those two hacks and the associated blackmails \u2013 they didn\u2019t come to arrest me for anything else.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Kelley had little concept of the real, legitimate world before his arrest. Remember his Asperger\u2019s, which meant he couldn\u2019t contemplate formal office work. \u201cI lived my life with a computer screen; I couldn\u2019t and didn\u2019t appreciate the real world,\u201d he said. \u201cI was sometimes spending weeks or months without leaving my house. I was spending 18 hours a day online, and I was sleeping four or five hours a day. That was my life.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

It all changed when he was arrested. \u201cWhen I was arrested, I was picked up and just thrown into the real world. I spent a week on remand in a Category-B prison in London in 2016, before being bailed to await trial. That week was absolutely horrific for an antisocial kid who lived with his parents.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

But it made him think \u2013 firstly that prison was an experience he didn\u2019t want to repeat, but perhaps more importantly, that the skills that put him in prison could be used legitimately to make more money than he ever did through hacking.\n<\/p>\n

After being bailed, he spent several years waiting for his trial. During this time, he made a living doing bug bounties and using his existing skills in a legitimate manner.\n<\/p>\n

The trial was at the Old Bailey in 2019. He had already pled guilty, and the charges carried a 12-year sentence. But the judge recognized that he had reformed and reduced the sentence by eight years to just four years. Interestingly, although Asperger\u2019s has been used as a reason to prevent the extradition<\/a> of young British hackers to the US, the judge rejected it as a mitigating factor for Kelley.\n<\/p>\n

\u201cIn my case, the judge thought otherwise,\u201d said Kelley. \u201cHe made it clear in his sentencing notes. He said that even though I may have perceived the world differently and may not have appreciated the consequences of my actions, nevertheless, I still knew what I was doing. He felt that because I\u2019m high functioning, I still had the common sense to realize that what I was doing was wrong. So, me being autistic didn\u2019t do much in terms of my sentence \u2013 what did the most was the way I had reformed myself and helped people in the period up to the trial.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Kelley was sentenced to four years in Belmarsh Category-A prison, the prison normally reserved for the most serious criminals. Surprisingly, his experience was less difficult than he had feared: \u201cThe other inmates simply didn\u2019t consider me any sort of threat.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

He was released on probation with a string of personal restrictions in 2021. \u201cI was issued with a serious crime prevention order containing some 20 to 30 restrictions, including both technical and physical restrictions \u2013 and a further set of restrictions from the Probation Service.\u201d The probation restrictions will last until 2023, while the release restrictions will run until 2026.\n<\/p>\n

The irony, which he notes but does not criticize, is that during the four-year period from the arrest to the trial, when he was closest to his Blackhat behavior, he had no behavioral restrictions. Now, after serving a prison sentence and being reformed, he has a string of restrictions.\n<\/p>\n

A connection between neurodiversity<\/a> and Blackhat hackers has been noted before. It makes sense when you consider the symptoms but is not something that is statistically provable. We asked Kelley for his views. \u201cIt\u2019s extremely common among hackers,\u201d he said. \u201cBut it\u2019s difficult to say whether it\u2019s a mitigating factor for hacking.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Nevertheless, he said the majority of Blackhats he came across in the past had some form of psychological disorder. \u201cSome of the best hackers I used to know years ago had severe psychological issues. So, yeah, it\u2019s extremely common.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Having Asperger\u2019s Syndrome and its psychosocial effects almost certainly had a role in Kelley\u2019s descent into malicious hacking. He went to prison for that, reformed himself and has returned to society. But he still has Asperger\u2019s, and he still has difficulty with the idea of working in an office.  The very idea of navigating office politics scares him. \n<\/p>\n

\u201cI\u2019ve been to prison,\u201d he said. \u201cSo, I\u2019ve been forced to go into social environments. But even today, the thought of going into an office \u2013 I just won\u2019t do it. The only reason I\u2019m in cybersecurity now is because \u2018work from home\u2019 started because of COVID \u2013 for me, that\u2019s the best thing that has ever happened.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Since leaving prison, Kelley has started a blog and operates a popular cybersecurity newsletter. But that\u2019s not the same as being employed with a salary. We asked him how he earns a living. \u201cI don\u2019t. I have to rely on the state, through universal credit and benefits \u2013 and my family helps me out.\u201d \n<\/p>\n

It\u2019s not what he wants, but is what is available to a convicted Blackhat hacker with Asperger\u2019s. \u201cTechnically, I\u2019m not banned from cybersecurity,\u201d he said. \u201cWhat I\u2019m banned from is the technology that will be required for a cybersecurity role.\u201d And this is a potential problem. \n<\/p>\n

\u201cIn theory, I could get a cybersecurity role today. But it\u2019s the process of identifying a role, that would be compatible with all the restrictions on me. That\u2019s the real issue. In regard to doing what I want in cybersecurity in four years from now [when his release restrictions expire], well, there\u2019s the issue of keeping up to date. That\u2019s the biggest problem that I\u2019ve got right now. You know, the theory\u2019s good. You can read a ton, but at some point, when it comes to cybersecurity, you must translate a lot of that theory into practice. Otherwise, you start to lose a skill set.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Kelley\u2019s advice to other youngsters drifting into this situation is to ask themselves, \u2018why am I doing this?\u2019 \u201cIf the justification is just because it\u2019s fun, well, is it really worth the risk of potentially going to prison because something\u2019s fun? You must question your motive, because there\u2019s a high probability that your motive can be fulfilled in a legal context. You can still hack websites, but in an ethical context. You can make a lot of money in an ethical context.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

Between talking to Kelley and writing this article, Kelley has been offered and has accepted his first formal, legitimate cybersecurity position. It would be a waste to ignore his talents with the current cybersecurity skills gap. He is now senior security researcher at Seedata.io, a firm that uses deception technology to detect malicious activity and undiscovered breaches.\n<\/p>\n

SecurityWeek<\/em> spoke to Enrico Faccioli, CEO and cofounder of London-based Seedata, about employing Kelley. \u201cBoth I and Matt Holland (CTO and cofounder) knew of him by reputation. I followed his blog and had the idea of employing him. We took a quick call to see if our interest, and his skills matched \u2013 and they did.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

He stressed that the decision to employ Kelley has nothing to do with rehabilitation. \u201cOur role is non-typical within the security industry. Dan\u2019s knowledge and strong research skills equip him perfectly for this.\u201d Faccioli has no views on employing a reformed hacker \u2013 it\u2019s, \u201cMore like a case-by-case review. We need to see value in making the recruitment, and risk management.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

But the all-important question: is the position compatible with Kelley\u2019s probation and release restrictions? \u201cHe\u2019s more than capable of doing our current role within the scope of his restrictions, but there are some things we need to consider carefully. Probation and the authorities have been really helpful.\u201d\n<\/p>\n

And the cream on Kelley\u2019s cake? It\u2019s all remote working.\n<\/p>\n

Addendum<\/strong>: Daniel Kelley now runs his own cybersecurity content creation agency: Cyberou.com<\/a>.\n<\/p>\n

Related<\/strong>: Harnessing Neurodiversity Within Cybersecurity Teams<\/a>\n<\/p>\n

Related<\/strong>: Tapping Neurodiverse Candidates Can Address Cybersecurity Skills Shortage<\/a>\n<\/p>\n

Related<\/strong>: UK Teen Arrested Over Rockstar Games, Uber Hacks<\/a>\n<\/p>\n

Related<\/strong>: TalkTalk: Details of Over 1 Million Users Accessed by Hackers<\/a>\n<\/p>\n

READ MORE HERE<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

READ MORE HERE…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":52824,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"colormag_page_layout":"default_layout","footnotes":""},"categories":[277],"tags":[9658],"class_list":["post-52823","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cybersecurity-blogs","tag-headlinehackerbritain"],"yoast_head":"\nHacker Conversations: Inside The Mind Of Daniel Kelley, Ex-Blackhat 2026 | ThreatsHub Cybersecurity News<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"ThreatsHub Cybersecurity News | ThreatsHub.org | Cloud Security & Cyber Threats Analysis Hub. 100% Free OSINT Threat Intelligent and Cybersecurity News.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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